Sky-no satellite signal?

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Hi, is anyone having a problem with Sky? I'm trying to determine if this is a problem with my box or with the communal dish? Sky are unable to help at the moment. Thanks

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Hi Helen – this happened yesterday morning but appears to have happened again today. Today I haven't had time to look into it, but yesterday the fix (or coincidentally it starting to work when I did this!) was:

1. Turn off at the plug for a while (a minute or so)
2. Turn it back on
3. Wait at least 4 minutes
4. Press the 'Sky' button
5. It will come back on and do it's business

Just turning off and on wasn't enough and I got the above from a googlisation.

I know some others have had the same problem.  Let me know if it works and I'll try it on my system when I'm back home.

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Thanks James. That hasn't worked for me. Simon is going to have a look !

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I have now had the same issue and the 'quick fix' has stopped working and so I have emailed Alan. My neighbour is having the same issue.  It makes me think that it's not an isolated issue with the same symptoms having arisen on 3 systems that we know of all over the same few days.

I will update when I have any information from Alan just encase anybody else is having a similar issue.

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Helen, James

Just for your info, I am having similar issue with my Sky at the moment so it does look like it a more widespread issue.

Cheers

Paul

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I should be really grateful if someone could please let me know the current status on this.

We had a new Sky+HD 2TB box installed on Saturday, but following the software update in which the Sky engineer left the box, it has kept crashing, claiming it “isn't receiving a satellite signal” and is “still initialising…“.

I have managed to get it back up and running twice by following the guidance on Sky's website and various other 'fixes' elsewhere, but only for the problem to recur.  We are on the single feed install, so no splitters or stacker/de-stacker.

As is well-known, Sky will tend to blame the (communal) dish before exploring anything else, so my question is also if I can confirm to them that our equipment is faultless?

Kind regards

Tom
10, 2 RQ

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Hi Tom – Helen, Jide and I all live next door to each other and have been having intermittent but recurring issues on this for a while.

It seems to happen when we have very cold weather overnight (don't laugh but it seems to be the case) and then it corrects later in the day. The three systems all tend to go off around the same time but not necessarily at the same time and then return separately.

Helen has had the engineer out (Alan who looks after the communal system) twice and he cannot find any faults but hasn't been here when the problem has been in play.  We had it again over the weekend (Sat and Sun) for a while on both days but it corrected.

Not much help for you I know – and I am unsure what the solution is until Alan happens to be here when the problem is in play.

It does seem to correct itself, but I tend to go through the motions of various steps just to see if it fixes.

1. Soft reset by turning off at wall for 20 seconds. Turn on.  Leave 4 minutes.  Hit the 'Sky' button on the remote.

2. Software update (turn off at all, hold down the 'back up' button on the box NOT the control and then turn back on at plug – keep holding the 'back up' button for about 20 seconds and the software update kicks in).

3. Planner rebuild (go to Services, hit '0' then '1' then 'enter', on the new menu go to Planner Rebuild).

With all of these, I get the 'no signal' or 'system initialising' sometimes for 20 minutes before it works (if it does).

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Hi James,

Thank you very much – that is very helpful, although I suppose it potentially could be an issue only affecting your stairwell(?) It would be interesting to also hear from others.

A quick Google search seems to indicate that the apparent cold weather connection could mean a faulty LNB. Do we know if the dish and LNBs have been serviced recently?

I have had some limited success with the below and some other quick fixes over the weekend, but none of them have so far provided a permanent solution to the problem.

On one occasion, the box crashed the minute I reinserted the TV aerial cable into the wall socket. I think I have since understood that in order to avoid interference and potential signal loss you want a (properly installed) “screened” wall plate, so I was just wondering if the standard RQ TV wall plates are, in fact, 'screened'?

Given that I do not consider my installation to be complete (as I would otherwise have Sky TV now), I am going to try and persuade Sky to come 'round and finish the job (i.e. for free…).

Kind regards

Tom
10, 2 RQ

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This is a very curious problem.  Although I don't use sky, I do use the satellite feed for my FreeSat box.  I haven't had any problems even when it has been very cold.  That said not all of the channels work but I understand this to be something to do with a local microwave signal interferring or because of the particular satellite we point too.

There is one other common variable with these reports, namely using Hyperoptic as the ISP.  I am wondering if there is a geolocation conflict occuring. I noticed that some websites detect my IP location as being in the US, due to Hyperoptic using recyled US IP addreses.  It may not be this but I wonder if there is some other conflict brought about by the combination of sky / hyperoptic.  It would be interesting to know if other non hyperoptic / sky users have experienced any problems.  Just an idea.

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Thank you, Simon.

We should not be ruling out anything, although it is difficult to see how the ISP might interfere with the satellite signal, as opposed of course to the various wireless services such as On Demand TV on Sky.

Due to my experience of losing signal the minute I reinserted the TV aerial cable into the wall socket, my own main suspect is currently the wall plate and possibly the 'kink' that the cable does inside the socket.

Please see the ('how not to do it') picture below showing the 'kink', from this article: http://www.aerialsandtv.com/cableandleads.html

Has Alan Kay considered and/or had a look at some of our (almost 20 years old) wall plates? What is the procedure for calling him out – are his services paid for via the “TV aerial maintenance” item in our budget?

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Hello Tom,

There was mention of the software update process being instigated and I assumed the delivery method would be via the internet.

Why don't you unscrew your face plate and take a look at the wiring if you suspect this is the issue?

Individual problems are just that and are not covered in the communal budget.  You will have to contract Alan direct at your own expense unless he identifies a communal issue.

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Hi Simon,

Thank you – yes; software updates are delivered via the Internet and, as I said, let us not rule out anything in our on-going quest for reliable TV reception at RQ! 🙂

I did unscrew my wall plate as soon as I suspected its role in the sudden loss of signal, which is how I discovered the cable 'kink' inside and its potential significance:

Basically, I understand the 'kink' in the cable may reflect and bounce back certain frequencies, resulting in some frequency ranges distorting or cancelling out and in some channels pixelating or disappearing (which might explain the frequent reports in here of some, but not all, channels affected).

The cable enters the wall plate from above but connects inside it from the bottom up, so (unless some wall plates were originally installed upside down) this would affect the whole of RQ as a faulty (or at least as a non industry-recommended) original installation, as per the link in my previous post.

More reading here: http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/kinked_cable.htm

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All,

Has anyone else been experiencing regular, daily loss of the Sky Movie channels 301-314 (only), and only between midnight and approx. 2.00am?

The daily outage does not include channel 303 (Sky Movies Showcase), which oddly transmits on a different frequency to the other movie channels.

The sources of interference could be many, and I have so far ruled out our boiler, which I believe kicks in around that time, and wireless phones.

You can almost set your watch to the loss of signal at midnight. Were there talks some years ago about a pirate radio station just to the south of us?

Any input would be greatly appreciated, as we are having a Sky engineer out at the weekend and would like to be able to rule out anything local to RQ.

Thank you very much.

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Hi All

I have just had a Sky engineer out as I was upgrading my box and he has informed that there is an issue with the signal reaching the flats and to contact the communal supplier immediately.

His reading of signal strength was 3 on one feed and 4 on the other and stated it should be around 30 and to avoid recording until it is corrected as that could cause the box to freeze.

How best do I report this and who to?

Cheers

Paul

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Hi Paul,

This accords with what a Sky engineer informed us yesterday after rigorous technical analysis and trying a replacement box, reinstalling our wall plate, and also ruling out faulty cabling from the wall plate to our equipment.

The Sky engineer also demonstrated to us how the interference on at least one channel (the one the Sky box happened to be on at the time) seemed to coincide and to be in perfect sync with light gusts of wind outside…!

I understand that satellite dishes, LNBs, and the relevant cabling require servicing and/or replacement at least every five years but that our communal equipment on the roof is not easily accessible where is it currently positioned.

Upwards of a hundred channels are affected in our case, which is of course wholly unacceptable!

Reporting the issue in here ought to be a good place to start.

Please remind me: Are you in the East or West Block?

Kind regards

Tom

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Cheers Tom

I'm in the West block, Rope Street side.

It does sound exactly the same issue as I'm having, the engineer who came out today wasn't as thorough as it sounds yours was over the weekend but did seem pretty shocked with how weak the signal was.

Paul

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Thank you, Paul.

We are also in the West Block – as are James, who posted further down and, I am assuming from James' posts, Helen (who also posted below and of course started this thread) and James' other neighbour, Jide.

Not least due to the cost involved with accessing the communal equipment on the roof, as a particularly large cherry-picker is required, my understanding is that a 'more-likely-than-not communal case' needs to be made for it to be investigated.  The case would probably have to be made to our Directors in the first instance, not all of whom are Sky subscribers, so they will not all have first-hand experience of this nuisance.

It is surely a design flaw, and caused some disbelief in our Sky engineer yesterday, that there is (currently) no access to the dish etc. via a stairwell or ditto hatch.  Could we not create an easier, permanent access somehow; or buy a ladder that is tall enough; or perhaps reposition the equipment?  The dish needs to point SSE, roughly towards Greenwich, with no immediate obstructions in its way, incl. our building itself!

On my counting, we currently know of at least five West Block households affected, but on the other hand we are probably less than five very regular users/contributors on this forum, including you, me, James, more recently Helen, and obviously (and thankfully) Simon, which makes me think that this may not be the right forum for getting a better understanding of who is afffected.

I shall take the Board's lead on this, but might a hard copy mailshot through all letterboxes with an invitation to report back on any TV reception issues be an idea?  I believe it has been tried before, but I am not sure how it worked out? – apart from not fixing the problem very permanently, of course. 🙁  I am very happy to do some of the leg and actual work myself under your guidance.

As many previous posts will testify, we ourselves have been enduring these problems for quite some time, but took a break from reporting on the issue, as we put it down to our old Sky box.  However, having just upgraded to a brand new box with no real results – other than the ability to view On Demand content though WiFi thanks to Simon's efforts with Hyperoptic! 😀 – we are now determined to get to the bottom of it.

“Is the TV working?” unfortunately is not an uncommon question in this household – but, really: this is 2016 and Central London, and we must do better at RQ with something as basic these days as TV reception!

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“Is the TV working?” unfortunately is not an uncommon question in this household – but, really: this is 2016 and Central London, and we must do better at RQ with something as basic these days as TV reception!

Anyone is welcome to join the board and add their input.  I am also more than happy to stop responding to alarmist trivia on this forum and pass over its management to somebody who has the time and patience to deal with such.

Any takers?

As an aside I have emailed Alan and Rynew to investigate. 

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Please can those affected with this Sky issue please provide information along the lines of that requested by the engineer, copied below.  It may help us track down the inconsistent error that is not affecting the whole system and thus makes fault identification challenging.

It would help greatly with diagnosis if residents could provide specific details of channel and time during interruptions to reception.
Even more useful would be (assuming not a complete loss of all channels) to check channels one by one and note which work and which do not.
I'm not suggesting that they scroll through hundreds of channels, but certainly the ones they watch most and as many others as they can bear to check.
With such a list of working/non-working channels I can identify whether a single polarity or band is affected, or whether all affected channels were always carried by one of the Astra cluster of satellites, or in the past by Eutelsat 28A (now removed).

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All

I am still waiting for a reply from my email to Alan and Rynew, who I thought would have replied being our new management company.

But to hopefully help the resolution below are a few screen shots and a few channels I saw missing yesterday. I tend to lose channels the later in the evening it goes (usually between 10PM and 12PM) but due to an early start was only able to check just before 10PM yesterday.

Tuesday I lost all channels/signal

Yesterday at 9:54PM looked at the signal strength which was pretty poor

I didn't have time to run through all channels but:

Heavily pixelated

404 Sky Sports 3 HD (all other Sky Sports HD fine)

Pixelated

112 Comedy Central HD

No signal at all (thankfully not channels I watch)

134 S4C
146 CBS Reality
147 CBS Reality +1
148 CBS Action
149 CBS Drama
189 propeller
190 5STAR +1

Hopefully this helps resolve the problem quickly

Paul

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Hi Paul
Thanks for this. Alan did come back to the Directors and we also cc'd Rynew in following Simon's email to them.The information requested is so that we can capture all the feedback from those impacted and feed back to Alan to try to help get to the root of the problem. All the best, Helen

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All,

I attach a Word document showing our affected Sky channels (70 in total).

To help diagnose the problem, we have been through all available channels ('warts and all'…) two or three times in order to compile this list.

I can see that there are notable overlaps with Paul's list below, although we do not have the HD Bundle, and we are on a single feed installation.

The biggest annoyance is the periodic loss of signal or pixilation on the movie channels 301 to 320 and, like Paul, we are without the CBS channels.

Many of the other channels listed have been included solely (take my word for it) in the interest of identifying the affected polarity and/or frequency band.

We have not checked Sky Box Office, but I still recall paying for a premium sports event some time ago only to find the channel unwatchable due to pixilation…!

I hope this helps.  Other users are more than welcome to use the attached document as a template for their own reporting.

Thank you.

Tom

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[…] I am also more than happy to stop responding to alarmist trivia on this forum […]

Dear Simon,

As I hope you know, your tireless efforts for the RQ community have always been greatly appreciated, not least by me, and please do not stop responding in here! 🙂

However, one man's alarmist trivia is the next guy's genuine problem, like e.g. all our internet speed discussions, which clearly did not interest everybody equally, but which are now a thing of the past thanks to those discussions and, not least, to your subsequent, significant help with Hyperoptic.

I have offered to take an active role with the current issue, and that obviously still stands. My concern remains that, due to the relatively small number of regular users/contributors in here, this may not be the right forum for getting a good overview of who remains affected by poor TV reception and how.

Kind regards

Tom

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Tom, many thanks for providing a 'log' of the problems you're having. They mirror many of mine (and others) . I'll send your document across to the engineer and hopefully the growing evidence and feedback we have will help to identify, isolate and ultimately resolve this problem. Kind regards, Helen.

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[…] the problems you're having […] mirror many of mine (and others).

Sounds both interesting and very encouraging – thank you so much, Helen! 😀

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All – it seems that (perhaps coincidentally) with the weather once again very cold as it was back in March, the Sky service has decided to throw a wobble. I'm having exactly the same issues that we had previously, namely:
1. failed recordings
2. repeated 'your sky box is initialising' when I turn the box on
3. that changes to 'your sky box isn't getting a satellite signal'

I'm in the West Block and this started yesterday sometime during the afternoon (I spotted it at 6pm when a recording failed). I tried the old tricks which I'm not thinking were just a smoke screen and not actually 'fixing' the issue.

1. Soft reset by turning off at wall for 20 seconds. Turn on.  Leave 4 minutes.  Hit the 'Sky' button on the remote.

2. Software update (turn off at all, hold down the 'back up' button on the box NOT the control and then turn back on at plug – keep holding the 'back up' button for about 20 seconds and the software update kicks in).

3. Planner rebuild (go to Services, hit '0' then '1' then 'enter', on the new menu go to Planner Rebuild).

Last night and this morning these are not having any impact (10pm last night and 6.30am this morning). I've started a quick log (attached – including outside temperature!) and if anybody is having the same issue maybe you could complete it and email it back to me over the next few days so that we may be able to get a picture of if it is consistent across flats and also if the temperature is an influence!  PM me for my email as I don't want to post where a scraper bot might get a hold of it.

As an aside, the sun started shining at 7.35am and the Sky box was back on at 8.30am … not sure if they're linked! I'm going to keep a log though encase it goes off again over the coming days.

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James

I hadn't noticed any problems yesterday however I have just checked the planner and lo and behold their was a 'Part Rec, Technical Fault – 7(33)' for a Channel 4 HD recording last night. Channel 4 HD and Film Four HD were two of the channels that constantly failed last winter for me.

This has been the first failure since the spring so your temperature theory appears to be very credible, hopefully this won't result in 5/6 months of failed recordings.

Cheers

Paul

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James,

We are currently experiencing similar issues, including failed recordings (false schedule clashes), and 'no listings available' on some channels, and listings in any event unavailable more than just a few hours ahead on all channels.

According to my own, brief research, a drop in temperature is generally considered unlikely to have an effect unless it causes the dish to ice over. Other weather-related culprits (apart from the very well-known ones) include water ingress due to high air humidity and (more obviously) rain, esp. in the case of older or poorly maintained equipment.

Alternatively, since a few of us are experiencing the same issues, which would seem to rule out faults with individual boxes: Poor dish alignment (e.g. following high winds), cable deterioration and/or faulty/failing LNB (said to be more likely if the cable and LNB are more than five years old, at which point they are said to usually need replacing).

I did a 'new menu' Planner Rebuild late last night, but it is too early to say what effect it may have or for how long.

Kind regards

Tom
10, 2

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Hi, I'm in block 99 and just had my box replaced and still encountering this issue intermittently. Which leads me to believe this is a communal issue. Not sure how to take this forward. Most annoying.

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We think there may be water ingress into one of the feeds on the roof.  When it freezers it would cause loss of signal.  Because access is required by cherry picker we are waiting to have it looked at during the upcoming gutter clearance.  This is due to be done in approx three weeks.  Sorry it is taking so long.  There was a missed instruction to clean the gutters before Christmas so this work has fallen behind schedule.

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Not really happy about the wait as Sky will not refund ongoing loss of signal as this is “our communal” issue. However, understand the cost implications. Therefore, As this impacts many people, can we ensure a thorough job is done and suitably tested. I won't be so understanding if the issue reoccurs after the inspection.

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I have had a conversation recently with Sky about the Q upgrade.  They told me that the subscriber level across Rainbow Quay is less than 15%.

However we are trying to get the problem resolved.

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Not sure of the relevance of the 15%. That's still multiple people. After a period of relative stability (and warmer weather) the signal dropped for a short while last night (it was very cold). Any update on a date for the inspection/repair? And as asked of the agent, can we ensure the engineer is aware of the intermittent and weather related problem and armed with suitable replacement parts to give the best chance for a fix first time.

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Orpy

Just to confirm I experienced exactly the same issues as you last night, about 10 days of it working and then lost channels again last night. As you say it must be linked to the low temperature.

But as this problem has been on going for two winters now I am starting to doubt we'll ever get year round Sky television at Rainbow Quay.

I'm not sure what the relevance of 15% is or even Sky Q if we can't even get the basic Sky television working.

Sorry for the rant but this is now very frustrating but I do live in hope that this will be fixed shortly.

Cheers

Paul

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We are without signal (again), since last night.  We are on 'basic Sky' (Sky+ HD), not Sky Q.

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Yes, I can confirm loss of signal again. SF, can we get this escalated please and a firm fix date. This is paid for by our service charge. Thanks

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No Satellite signal all Friday and Saturday morning. This is becoming unacceptable and costly.

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I spoke to the Managing Agent on Friday and they are now telling me there is a further delay on the gutter cleaning.  The excuse doesn't fit with prior emails so I am waiting on a more complete explanation.

I tried to get a maintenance contract with the company who installed the Q but they seem reluctant to quote due to the height work.

I have asked Rynew to look for another contractor to get to the roof.  The issue is that the satellite company's do not have the height equipment.  It requires hiring a 30m+ cherry picker and an operator along with the associated risk assessment and method statement documents to be processed.

I can understand that this is inconvenient to a vocal minority.  Please feel free to organise the repair yourselves.  Pass the contact details, date of visit and MAR documents of the contractors to Rynew and we will get it implemented.

Your complaints should be to the Managing Agent, Rynew.  As far as I was aware the guttering and dish were supposed to be attended too this week. 

The weather is out of my control, the colder it is the more degraded the service, no amount of huffing and puffing is going to change that.

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Vocal minority – how condescending! Are we not allowed to voice an opinion on a bad service that we pay for? Isn't that the point of this forum, information sharing?

Furthermore, I have registered this issue with the managing agent on several occasions and they refer everything to the board. Also, had I been given the opportunity to get this resolved myself when I first reported the issue, I would have happily done so and had the issue resolved by now. We knew more cold and wet weather was due!

That said, thank you for checking options, that's more in line with what I would expect to be done. Please follow up with the managing agent and post an update. This is their responsibility and if they are suggesting further delay, they should cover any additional costs to get this resolved in the timescales originally set (and 3 weeks after the issue was first reported). I hope there are penalties for their failures written into our (and any decent) contract.

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Just as an FYI – I am not in the UK at the moment but will confirm if mine went off while I was away (it is scheduled to record most days and has gone off at similar times to others for the past 2-3 years).  I know that Jide lost his at least on Friday night as he messaged me about it to see if mine had gone off at the same time.

It's a shame we don't have roof access from inside the building to the satellite dish. Alan could camp out there to test when the signal fails in order to locate the issue.

Joking aside I think it's a frustration for all and part of the issue that accentuates it is the sporadic nature meaning that if an engineer is not onsite when the problem is in play and also has access to the roof at that same point in time then identifying the problem is tough. It certainly appears to be that water gets in somewhere and then freezes … but where that is could be anyones guess if it cannot be properly investigated (and, of course, it could be something else entirely). So I do have sympathy with the issues around identifying and resolving the issue. That said, I think 'vocal minority' isn't perhaps the best term but let's put that down to the frustration that everyone is facing when the problem is non-consistent.

All communal services need to be maintained and serviced to a level that means that the users benefit from them as intended. Be that basics such as electricity, water and sewage through to the window cleaning, general cleaning, garden maintenance, CCTV, basic TV aerials and the Sky service. Some of these things will be fixed more rapidly if there is a fault (think sewage) and others will have a lower priority – but there definitely comes a point when a fix has to be found and the 2-3 years we have had an issue for is probably beyond that point.  I have repeatedly told Rynew and kept logs but the issue seems to be that the gutter cleaning is being delayed. Perhaps everyone needs to be contacting Rynew every time there is an issue (I know several people that tend not to). If this next guttering exercise doesn't locate the issue then I think the next Board meeting should definitely discuss a plan of action or request one from Rynew.

Fingers crossed for gutter access asap and Alan getting up there is discovering a dodgy cable or something easy and cheap to fix.

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I am sorry you have interpreted my comment as condescending.  Subtle nuances of emotion are often lost on me.  I simply meant 'vocal' as in willing to speak up about an issue , which is good.  'Minority' as in a subset of the community at Rainbow Quay.  Nothing more was meant.

I have been having a chat with the Greenland passage chair and have the name of their Sat. contractor.  I've sent them an email but I have a busy week before me,  so cannot promise that I will have it resolved.

My intention is to request all of the equipment to be stripped from the roof, new installed and shielding added. 

It is good that this forum (which I maintain voluntarily) can be used to share information and improve things for the betterment of our community. I appreciate the acknowledgement of this.

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Excellent, so moving positively onward, I think the proposed solution is our best shot at getting this fixed and isn't dependent on it being a cold or very wet day when the engineer is on site. With regards to having a busy week, isn't this something the managing agent should action? Regardless, for the community, I am happy to assist in any way I can.

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Many thanks Simon – I appreciate that this is an annoyance for all due to the weird fault. I've googled several times over the past couple of years to see if any other communal systems have faced a similar issue and have never been able to find anything which only adds to the mystery!

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Just to report for the stats that our loss of signal since Thursday evening continues; i.e. almost a full three days now of black (actually: blue) screen.

All resuscitation attempts (Rebuild, Off Mode Reset, etc., etc. …) have so far been in vain – actually for the first time since roughly this time last year!

Great to hear this communal problem shall now be resolved.  My guess is that the equipment on the roof may have long since exceeded its life span.

As previously mentioned, it does seem like a design flaw that there is no access to the dish via a stairwell or ditto hatch and that (the cost of) a particularly large cherry-picker is required.  I also understood from discussions at the recent AGM that some much venerated trees in the West Block garden are increasingly in the way of cherry-picker access to the relevant part of the roof in the first place…

For a development which (for many good reasons) outlaws individual dishes, we should of course make sure the communal offering is a viable alternative.

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This thread has gone quite as the unseasonably warmer weather means no loss of signal but can we get an update before the next cold snap of weather please? Another week has passed without a permanent fix.

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I contacted three satellite engineers last week.  None of them had the required high reach equipment and would not attend site to do a survey without a works order from the agent.

I spoke to the agent on Friday and they have a price for the reach equipment but no driver.  I have been told they are doing everything they can to get to the roof.   

They know they have to get the work done ASAP and the matter is in their hands.  My understanding is it should be no later than the 4th March, but time will tell. 

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I have been told a cherry picker will arrive on site on Monday.  A new satellite engineer will arrive on Tuesday with an instruction to re-cable from the dish to the first internal distribution point and check dish alignment / signal strength.

Its a different supplier of cherry picker than normal.  Thus I am hoping the selected cherry picker reaches and that the tree does not hinder access.  Will update Tuesday 28th.

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The repair has been carried out.

We had a cracked LNB which was probably where the water was getting in.

I now have all Freesat channels and the signal strength has gone up.

I cannot test the Sky channels but the engineer said that everything was in order.

Could those of you who were missing channels on Sky (not the weather related issue) please confirm if you now have the full compliment.

Thanks
Simon

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Resolved – Thread Closed

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